topic Re: A question regarding immune systems? in Treatments and side effects

A question regarding immune systems?

Jules2 — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:33:33 GMT

Hiya everyone I half listened to a bloke the other day who is doing research into cancer and what causes it. He was talking a bit about the immune system and how it is involved with cancer. Here is where it puzzles me. I have not had a virus, cold or flu for 17 years and then i get ms and cancer in that time. I would have thought that would indicate that my immune system was fine or a bit over the top re the ms. If thats the case then how did i get cancer? Did it suddenly turn off? Is that what happens with the immune system? Am really struggling to understand this one and anyone that can help out will be a brain saver. lol thanks Julie

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

samex — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:56:46 GMT

Great question Julie. I too have often wondered how those who never even get a cold get struck down with cancer if ti is linked to the immune system.(And you with the double whammy of MS as well) Samex

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

Sailor — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:27:24 GMT

Hi There Folks Cancer 101 - well I'm not the person to run this course. Also what I know about the immune system you could write on the back of a postage stamp in quite large letters. However, from what I have learned over the years is that cancer is an overall name for a variety of diseases, just as infection is a generic name for a wide variety of diseases. So some cancers are linked to an infectious agent such as human papilloma virus, hence a vaccine can be developed to prevent the HPV infection ending up as cancer. Other cancers are caused by agents that damage the DNA of normal cells and the resulting damaged cells develop into cancerous cells - so UV radiation and melanoma, smoking and certain types of lung cancer and head and neck cancer. Similarly there are a group of cancers that are occupation linked, so from what is known there are cancer causing agents in those particular workplaces that can result in cancer - for example the rubber industry and certain types of bladder cancer. Other cancer there are certain genes that are linked. However, the problem is that we are dealing with population studies to find these things out and there is an awful lot of things we do not know. Most of us have at some stage or another been exposed to asbestos, but most of us will not get mesothelioma, only some will. So having a cancer linked gene increases the risk for the individual, it doesn't say they will get cancer. There are other factors involved. I think that somewhere on the cancer councils website is a "what is cancer" section. Hope that helps Sailor Never go into strange places on a falling tide without a pilot. Thomas Gibson Bowles

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

Jules2 — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:27:59 GMT

Hiya samex ... It is weird because my understanding of ms (which i had a one off attack it seems) is that it is the immune system on overdrive. Perhaps i just have a very weird immune system. haha Are you feeling any better?? Things like what has happened to your friend do get us in a vulnerable place and sometimes we dont qutie expect the impact to be as it is. Oh and i wanted to ask what sort of shoes do you wear now, as in brand because i have been thinking about you and your feet. lol Now that sounds weird!! Julie

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:02:00 GMT

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Re: A question regarding immune systems?

SILLY — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 22:00:09 GMT

Just read this post for the first time. I think to get cancer at least a few factors come into it.Most cancers aren't caused by one single thing . So many things are linked to cancer these days -diet,lack of exercise,chemicals,smoking ...etc. Many or maybe all of these affect the immune system.It's so complicated .I get your question but wonder if your doctor even knows the answer.

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

CJF — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:01:10 GMT

Hi Silly, I don't think anyone knows the answer. I have never smoked, I've been vegetarian for over 25 years and prior to my tongue ( and subsequent neck cancer) I was slim and fit - gym 5 times a week, and very rarely sick. I am a teacher so my immune system is pretty good. My doctor told me that there were 5 main risk factors for tongue cancer - sharp teeth is the only category that applied to me. I feel that the immune system is very much involved, but just how, I don't know. CJF

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

SILLY — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 21:17:20 GMT

There seems to be a few teachers here. I was still teaching before but only doing relief work. Loved it but have finished now.

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

Braveb — Sun, 25 Sep 2011 13:27:17 GMT

Hi, The immune system is involved, but immune systems are complicated and the cell dynamics and biochemistry involved hurt my brain. I'm not sure if terms like 'good' and 'strong' really apply to immune systems. Indigenous Australians for example would have had 'excellent' immune systems wholly adapted for the tough Australian continent and live outdoors, but then exposure to simple chicken pox took the lives of thousands of individuals. Our immune systems are constantly adapting and learning. Its primary role is to recognize 'self' from 'non-self' and remove the non-self bits that pop up. These non-self bits can be bacteria, viruses, or cells that look and behave differently (ie. cancer cells). Cancer actually hijacks a part of the human body's immune response and can recruit and then convert your immune cells to stop working for you and start working against you. That is why cancer is so dangerous - it uses complicated biochemistry to turn immune cells that were sent to destroy it into cells that then help it grow and spread. This isn't a sign of a 'weak' immune system, it's a sign of a clever disease. And cancer can be considered very clever: 1 in 2 or 3 (depends on the report you are reading) people will get some type of cancer (ie. cells that grow into a tumour that the body has not removed). There are so many types of cancer cells and cancer cell lines. Your body has been doing a good job removing cells with the potential to turn into cancer (cells that weren't copied correctly for example) since the moment you were conceived. And yes, it has been fighting colds and cuts that entire time too. Some places suggest that weird and potentially dangerous cells are produced over 10,000 times a day - you have never noticed this though because your immune system has been hard at work keeping things clean and tidy. All it takes is one cancer cell to outsmart your immune system and avoid removal and however 'good' your immune system was until that point means nothing. Once your body fails to recognise that group of cells as 'non-self' your immune system has lost. It will still continue to fight all the things it has learnt to fight though such as colds and infections from cuts. Ben

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

SILLY — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:33:20 GMT

Thanks,you expressed this so clearly what I've read in some scholarly articles.If I understand it correctly different cancers can alter something in particular genes so that they can't do their job properly and they don't fight the cancer. Genetic research is so important because it may lead to treatments tailored to each type and stage of cancer. In the future,albeit a distant future, getting cancer may not be any worse than getting a bacterial infection.

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

SILLY — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:34:27 GMT

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

ashes — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:29:18 GMT

There is no doubt in my mind that a bad immune system is related to cancer - somehow. I was strong, fit and healthy untill I was injured as a cop in 2002. Since then I had suffered several other injuries and had 8 operations. I also had a large number ( I have lost count ) of Ct scans, MRI scans and Xrays, all of which are known to contribute a little bit at a time to cancer. This series of operations and scans etc continued untill I was shot in 2008. There were 4 more operations and many more XRays and CT scans. By this time, apart from the damage done by these scans, a permanent spinal impalnt and 15 operations, my immune system was non existant from constant abuse of my previously healthy body. I was then dignosed with Multiple Myeloma in early 2009. A coincidence? I really dont think so. I honestly believe that the effect on my immunity from constant body trauma coupled with the negative effect of countless xrays and scans have somehow led to my cancer. As someone said on this forum, it only takes one cancerous cell to start the process and whether the body has the abilty at that time to fight it. Sure there are other factors such as hereditory cancer like breast cancer, lung cancer from smoking, skin cancer from sun exposure etc etc etc but there are so many other cancers that dont have these links so how are they explained? Well this is my view and it seems to fit for me. Hopefully it means that if I can build up my immunity along with other treatments such as bone marrow transplant, chemo and radiotherapy, I may be able to fight and stabilise my terminal cancer. At this stage , this seems to be the case as I was meant to be dead 2 years ago! Never give up. What you believe can work for you whether it is true or not and whether or not it is the same for someone else with the same cancer. Anyway this is all any of us with any cancer can do! Stay well and dont let it beat you. Ash

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

Merv — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 07:44:17 GMT

Hi Ben I am new to all this

Do you know how the oncology specialist detirmines whether your immune system is normal , high , low , strong or weak My GP had little idea other than saying it was complex and forget about it !

Re: A question regarding immune systems?

CaptainAustrali — Tue, 10 Sep 2019 05:09:04 GMT

Hey Hey

In my opinion, this is one for the scientists, and whoever offers a point of view on it does not definitively KNOW.

Immunology is a major research area in cancer treatment, and is providing improved (and less damaging) treatment options for some types of cancer. Great.

But that doesn't necessarily translate to immunity/metabolism preventing you from getting cancer in the first place.

From what I read, there's some kind of programmed death gene in all of us, some kind of marker that tells the body to start shutting down. It's like that old saw about every cell in our body replacing itself over a 7 year period .. we're designed to rebuild and heal, but also eventually shut down.

Cancer is a mutation of healthy cells, that (just from a bit of reading) apparently is triggered by this programmed death process - and a lot of the immunology drugs geared toward treating cancer are designed toward over-riding this process (so that your healthy immune system can identify and fight the cancer).

Look, this is all just me as a layman interpreting science that is over my head .... BUT ....

That leads to the logical extrapolation that a healthy immune system doesn't necessarily specifically fight cancer. The immunology meds are about MAKING THE CANCER VISIBLE to your immune system (and yeah I think also super charging the immune system).

So basically, this programmed death process, this mutation into cancer cells, is triggered (in my case apparently by HPV+), and it's a signal from the head honcho that it's time to pull the switches and go on vacation.

In my thinking, it leads that an otherwise healthy person with a supercharged immune system is just at risk of cancer as someone not (an oncologist said this to me, actually, when I was diagnosed).

BUT - eating all that healthy stuff and being healthy still FEELS great.

I just think anybody who asserts that they KNOW it will help you prevent cancer should be looked at suspiciously - likewise if they even assert it will help you FIGHT cancer (beyond how being and feeling healthier will help you).

I think it's all about that programmed death process, that trigger point where a cell starts thinking "ohh right, Im not meant to be here any more". They kill those cells with radiation and hopefully they stay away. But will immuno- medicine, hawaiian seaweed and all that stuff help ?

I guess the answer is probably a very definite maybe.

Our medical establishment isn't great in terms of being a source of knowledge - I've met with scientists to discuss things like autism, and for extremely intelligent people with a very rigorous protocol, they're like everyone else - flawed humans who don't like hearing that they don't know everything, or hearing viewpoints alternative to the narrative they've invested so much into.

So yeah - on the flipside, if the secret to preventing cancer is in some kind of SUPERIMMUNO stuff, the orthodox medical establishment probably will poo-poo it for as long as possible, until the evidence is just plain undeniable.

I reckon gene therapy is probably what we'll see in 25 years - where at risk persons are identified at birth and given a preventative innoculation of sorts. As long as the zombie apocalypse doesn't happen in the interim.